Charles Leclerc has been Ferrari’s leading driver more or less since he arrived at the team six years ago.
But over that time he’s often found himself at odds with the team on his radio. His frustrations at their strategy calls, indecision over team orders and other errors have spawned endless memes.Ferrari haven’t stood still during that time. They’ve raised their game strategically and made other changes which had a positive impact on how they run their races.
But a survey of the stress points over Leclerc’s seven seasons of radio chatter at Ferrari also show there is one change he could make to avoid a problem he keeps encountering.
The fight to be number one
When Leclerc joined Ferrari in 2019, team principal Mattia Binotto made it clear their junior driver was expected to play a back-up role to his four-times world champion team mate Sebastian Vettel. But from their first race together it was clear Leclerc’s speed was going to give the team headaches.
2019 Australian Grand Prix
Ferrari issued ‘hold position’ orders when Leclerc closed on Vettel at the end of the race. He obeyed, but lost around 17 seconds while following his team mate home in fifth place.
Leclerc | Shall I stay behind Sebastian? Yes or no. |
Marcos Padros | Yes. Back off to have some margin. |
Leclerc | OK. |
Marcos Padros | Cool down the tyres. |
Leclerc | Tyres are not that warm. |
“It’s not the first time that the pit wall asked to freeze the race there and make sure you bring the cars home,” said Vettel after the race. “I don’t think this was a strong team order.” It was far from the last time the team intervened on the radio during 2019.
2019 Bahrain Grand Prix
Leclerc took pole for the next race in Bahrain and, after losing the lead to Vettel at the start, closed on his team mate rapidly. Ferrari ordered him to “stay there for two laps,” but instead Leclerc passed his team mate around the outside of turn one.
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2019 Chinese Grand Prix
Leclerc remained willing to obey Ferrari’s orders when he agreed with them, such as in Shanghai, where he again let Vettel past. However the change of positions left him close to Max Verstappen, and Red Bull seized the opportunity to get him ahead of Leclerc through the pit stops.
9 | Marcos Padros | Charles, Can you go faster? Can you go faster? | Lap 9, approaching turn six |
9 | Leclerc | [Unclear] …yet. | |
9 | Marcos Padros | So we need to push. Push now. | Exiting turn six |
9 | Marcos Padros | We need to go faster otherwise we’ll let Sebastian past. | On back straight |
9 | Leclerc | Yeah but we are both… OK. Let’s see in two laps. But okay. | |
9 | Marcos Padros | Copy | |
9 | Marcos Padros | Charles, Can you go faster? Can you go faster? | Lap 9, approaching turn six |
10 | Marcos Padros | Let Sebastian by. | On back straight |
10 | Leclerc | But I’ve done it now. I’m pulling away. | |
10 | Leclerc | I’ll let him by | Pit straight |
11 | Marcos Padros | Copy |
Afterwards Leclerc said he would consider when he felt it necessary to follow the team’s instructions. “Obviously there will always be team orders in Formula 1,” he said. “It depends on the situation. In some situations I will.”
Ferrari swapped the running order of its drivers twice during the Spanish Grand Prix as its cars finished fourth and fifth in the race. Vettel let Charles Leclerc pass him early in the race and Leclerc was told to allow Vettel past later on.
Vettel: “Charles was on a different strategy and with the Safety Car obviously his strategy was thrown to bits. But I think we tried to work together as much as we can but obviously every time we try to do something there’s a lot of talk afterwards which maybe doesn’t help to be a bit more reactive on the fly.”
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In Belgium Ferrari told Vettel to let Leclerc past, as he was on a different strategy, having pitted from the lead six laps after Vettel. Leclerc went on to take the team’s first win of the season, and his first grand prix victory.
He followed that up with a second at Monza. But team principal Mattia Binotto’s remarks after the race indicated the discontent behind the scenes. “Oggi sei perdonato,” Binotto told him in Italian, meaning ‘today you are forgiven.’
“It means that whatever happens in the last days that we discussed – that’s something that will remain between our three – at least today he did a good job,” Binotto said afterwards by way of explanation. Leclerc had benefited from a tow from his team mate on his first run in Q3 but Vettel was unable to receive the same advantage on his final run as neither began their final laps on time, and Leclerc only moved ahead of his team mate at the end of their preparation lap.
2019 Singapore Grand Prix
At the next round, Leclerc should have scored his third win in a row. He led Vettel over the opening 19 laps in Singapore.
But when Ferrari pitted Vettel before Leclerc, it allowed him to jump ahead of his team mate through the ‘undercut’. Leclerc was not impressed, and the team’s sporting director Laurent Mekies appeared on the radio to placate him:
37 | Leclerc | To be completely honest with you I don’t understand at all the undercut. But whatsoever I will discuss after the race. Anyway. |
37 | Laurent Mekies | Charles it was the best thing we could do. Head down, the race is long. Let’s concentrate on Safety Car. You are doing a super job. Watch your tyres and head down. |
37 | Leclerc | Yeah my head is down and it will be down until the race. But I just want to let you know my feeling. |
37 | Laurent Mekies | Yeah it’s all good, Charles. You will understand after the race. |
37 | Leclerc | Then we can fight, right? |
37 | Marcos Padros | Pause Don’t risk anything. You can attack, but don’t risk anything. |
37 | Leclerc | Copy. |
Leclerc demanded an explanation from Ferrari but Binotto was unhappy with his driver’s radio complaints. “There are some things that should not be said on the radio because at the end it would not have changed our decision,” he stated.
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2019 Russian Grand Prix
In his second season as an F1 driver, Leclerc scored more pole positions than anyone. At the 16th round in Sochi he scored his fourth in a row, but on the long run to the first braking zone Vettel moved ahead of him.
Ferrari agreed before the race that if the two drivers made identical starts off the line Leclerc would be allowed to keep his lead. They therefore told Vettel to let him by. Vettel refused, even after Ferrari issued no fewer than five separate instructions.
2 | Marcos Padros | So Charles start performance was the same and we are looking to do the swap further into the race. |
2 | Leclerc | Yes, no problem, at least I understand. |
3 | Marcos Padros | Safety Car in this lap. Try to maximise full throttle and K2 on. |
5 | Leclerc | Gap to behind is fine now. |
5 | Marcos Padros | Copy, understood. |
5 | Marcos Padros | Sebastian will let you by next lap. |
6 | Marcos Padros | Lap six: Vettel leads Leclerc by 1.37 seconds and Hamilton by 4.0 seconds. Message to Leclerc on pit straight. Sebastian will let you by. |
6 | Leclerc | Where? |
6 | Marcos Padros | We’ll do it next lap. |
7 | Marcos Padros | Turn one. Sebastian will let you by. |
7 | Leclerc | When? |
7 | Marcos Padros | Try to close the gap and we’ll do it next lap. |
7 | Leclerc | You put me behind. I respected everything. We will speak later. But now it’s difficult to close the gap, obviously. |
8 | Marcos Padros | So he should let you by this lap, will let you by. |
9 | Marcos Padros | You need to try to close the gaps. |
9 | Leclerc | Yeah guys but I mean… |
9 | Laurent Mekies | Charles we will do the swap a bit later on. Lewis is a bit close and we want to push now. We will do it later. Just focus on your race. Thank you. |
9 | Leclerc | I completely understand. The only thing is that I respected, I gave him the slipstream, no problems. Then I tried to push at the beginning of the race but I overheated the tyre. But anyway, it’s no problems. Manage the situation. |
Eventually Leclerc moved ahead of Vettel through the pit stops. It was the clearest sign yet the balance of power had shifted at the team. Four races later in Brazil the pair collided while disputing fourth place.
Leclerc ended the season 24 points ahead of Vettel in the championship. During the off-season Ferrari handed him a new, five-year contract. Before the postponed 2020 season began, Ferrari announced it would be Vettel’s final season driving for them.
Championship fights and strategy errors
In Carlos Sainz Jnr, Leclerc’s new team mate was clearly capable of running him close. But the pair had to forget about fighting for wins for much of the next two seasons as their car wasn’t competitive enough.
That changed in 2022 when Leclerc’s successes in the opening races propelled him into the lead of the championship. It didn’t last, however, as Verstappen and Red Bull fought back, and tactical errors crept in at Ferrari, which became a fresh source of radio angst.
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2022 Hungarian Grand Prix
One of the most conspicuous errors occured at the Hungaroring, where Ferrari hoped to keep Leclerc ahead of Verstappen by switching him to hard tyres. But the Red Bull driver passed Leclerc easily as he struggled to wring any performance from the harder rubber. Adding insult to injury, when Verstappen spun and fell behind Leclerc, he was able to easily re-pass him.
Lap: 40 | |
Lap: 41 | |
Lap: 42 | |
Lap: 43 | |
Lap: 44 | |
Lap: 45 |
2022 Brazilian Grand Prix qualifying
Ferrari’s strategic miscues did not affect Leclerc exclusively, but he did suffer some of their more mortifying mistakes. The closing stages of qualifying at Interlagos that year was a case in point: With rain threatening, Ferrari sent Sainz out on slicks and Leclerc out on intermediates, effectively guaranteeing one of their drivers would be on the wrong strategy.
When Leclerc saw all his rivals lining up for the start of the session on slicks he must have realised it would be him. Compounding their error, when Ferrari tried to call Leclerc in at the end of his out-lap to switch to slicks, they told him too late to reach the pit lane entrance, and his qualifying session was ruined.
Leclerc | There is absolutely no rain for now. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Marcos Padros | Raining at turn 12, we believe. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Leclerc | Yes but not enough. Let me know. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Marcos Padros | Push, I will let you know. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Leclerc | Turn 13 [Unclear] |
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Marcos Padros | Box now, box now! Box, box, box! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Leclerc | Leclerc has already passed the pit lane entrance Nice. Nice one. Let me push now. |
Lap: 55/56 LEC: 1’40.882 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lap: 56/56 LEC: 1’40.568 |
Strategy clashes and teamwork trouble
While Ferrari has improved its tactics for individual cars in recent seasons, it has continued to experience problems managing the often conflicting strategies of its two cars. Not least because first Leclerc and Sainz, and now Leclerc and Hamilton, have often met on track.
2022 British Grand Prix
One notable example of this occured at Silverstone in 2022. While Sainz memorably told the team to “stop inventing” with their team orders, Leclerc was also frustrated by their decision-making when he lost time behind his team mate:
17 | Marcos Padros | Sainz is being told that lap time target is 32.9. |
Leclerc | Yeah, but then do something, please! I’m not… I’m not trying to influence my result. I’m just, I can go faster, guys. | |
Marcos Padros | Copy, understood. | |
18 | Marcos Padros | And K1 available. |
Leclerc | Yeah, copy. | |
Marcos Padros | So Sainz is being told to push. | |
19 | Leclerc | Yeah, copy. I try to keep my tyres but I’m just losing race time. |
Marcos Padros | Copy. | |
20 | Marcos Padros | So Sainz will box this lap. |
Leclerc | Copy that. |
Later that year in Brazil, Leclerc repeatedly urged Ferrari to swap the running order of their two cars but was refused. “Swapping the two cars on the last straight was certainly tricky because Charles had got Fernando [Alonso] and Max just behind,” said Binotto after the race. “So certainly it could have been tricky and [potentially] dangerous.”
2023 Australian Grand Prix qualifying
Ferrari’s efforts to co-ordinate their drivers’ runs in qualifying did not go smoothly at Melbourne in 2023. Having been told Sainz would “give him a tow on the main straight,” Leclerc was frustrated to be held up briefly by his team mate at the beginning of the lap, then fail to receive the promised slipstream.
“Big thanks to Carlos for the tow in turns three and four,” Leclerc said sarcastically. “It was nice – got a little bit of extra speed. Always nice to be close there.”
2024 Las Vegas Grand Prix
The relationship between Leclerc and Sainz was usually constructive, but they were so closely matched the pair inevitably met on-track at times. In Las Vegas last year, Leclerc was put out when he was first told Sainz would “not overtake” him, then that his team mate would “not put you under pressure” – and then was passed by Sainz:
Lap 32 | |
Bozzi | Watch the white line. Watch the white line and box, Charles, box. |
Adami | Charles is boxing. |
Bozzi | Carlos has been told to not overtake, but it’s really close. He might be just in front. |
Bozzi | He has been told to not put you under pressure. |
Adami | Do not put him under pressure. |
Bozzi | Sainz passes Leclerc into turn five So just take care of your tyres. Focus on your tyres. |
Leclerc | Maybe try in Spanish. |
After the race Leclerc, in an unguarded comment he seemingly did not intend for broadcast, fumed over the outcome:
Victory lap | |
Leclerc | Was that chequered flag? |
Bozzi | Yes. |
Bozzi | Pick up, please. |
Leclerc | Yes, whatever you want, as always. |
Bozzi | Charles, you did your job, okay. Thank you. |
Leclerc | Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I did my job but being nice fucks me over all the fucking time, all the fucking time. It’s not even being nice, it’s just being respectful. |
Bozzi | Charles, Charles… |
Leclerc | I know I need to shut up but at one point it’s always the same, so… Oh my fucking god. |
Bozzi | Okay. But anyway, you did the right thing for the team. |
Bozzi | And pick up please. |
Leclerc | Yeah, yeah, fucking pick up what the fuck we want… Shit, shit, shit. And the radio is on. I’m sorry, that was on me. |
Since Hamilton’s arrival it’s been a case of ‘same situation, different team mate’ for Leclerc. First in China he expressed surprise at the team’s tactics in sprint race qualifying when he ended up in front of Hamilton on the track after aborting an early attempt at a flying lap, and was told to let his team mate through:
In the grand prix Leclerc spent several laps stuck behind his team mate while Hamilton, who had offered to let the other car by, took longer to do so than the team would have liked:
Lap: 16/56 LEC: 1’55.134, HAM: 1’37.942 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lap: 19/56 LEC: 1’36.907, HAM: 1’37.075 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lap: 20/56 LEC: 1’37.299, HAM: 1’37.469 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Lap: 21/56 LEC: 1’37.160, HAM: 1’39.319 |
A similar situation unfolded at the last round in Miami. This time Hamilton, on softer tyres than Leclerc, spent several laps stuck behind his team mate while the team deliberated when to swap them. Once they exchanged positions, Hamilton made little progress catching the car ahead and began to hold up Leclerc.
Again several laps were lost while one Ferrari delayed another until eventually the places were swapped. Leclerc made his dissatisfaction with the team’s latest strategy call clear.
Lessons for Leclerc
Ferrari have attracted jokes for their occasional odd decisions and proliferations of plans from A to D and sometimes beyond. At times the mockery has been with some justification, but the team has also learned from its mistakes.
But it can’t have escaped Leclerc’s notice that the conversations he had with the team in Miami and Shanghai this year about swapping places with Hamilton are no different to those he had last year concerning Leclerc. How does Ferrari keep allowing its cars to cost each other time?This is partly the side-effect of driving at a team which has two highly competitive drivers. McLaren has had to negotiate the same difficulties with Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri, and no doubt will continue to.
What conclusions should Leclerc draw from the latest episode in Miami? The time lost letting Hamilton by, only to be waved by him again later, cost him the chance to attack Andrea Kimi Antonelli for a better finish.
Would any of his rivals have allowed their position to be compromised in this way to help their team mate? Perhaps more to the point, would the Leclerc of late-2019, as he strived to secure his place at Ferrari when he last faced a multiple-champion team mate?
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David
14th May 2025, 7:36
Ferrari are still very bad on the pit wall – this has been clear for years and they haven’t been able to address it. In particular, there seems to be a real lack of respect and confidence from Leclerc in his new engineer Bozzi.
The other small distinction is that Sainz Jr happens to be outstandingly good at reading the race around him and making his own calls on strategy. I don’t think this is a skill that every driver has and I don’t think Leclerc should be criticised for not having the same confidence. It just means that he is invariably the victim of the weak Ferrari pit wall.
The current situation with Hamilton is the same he would have with any slower team-mate, when you split strategies you will always end up on the same piece of track at some point. But a combination of the bad pit wall and Lewis’s hesitance to let Charles pass immediately (even when he suggests the switch in positions himself) means they always manage to lose a lot more time than they should.
Yes (@come-on-kubica)
14th May 2025, 9:37
Is Sainz that good? A few good calls in his career doesn’t make him excellent.
DAH
14th May 2025, 9:49
Carlos is a whole lot better than Hamilton.
XM (@xmf1)
14th May 2025, 10:01
I can’t remember any bad calls from Sainz himself but I remember him proposing a better strategy than the pit wall does. Leclerc on the other hand, has almost always followed the pit wall to his own detriment. Does that make Sainz excellent? I can’t say 100%, but it’s definitely a much more glowing report card. And I’m saying this as a Charles fanboy.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
14th May 2025, 11:50
@xmf1 Carlos was never refused a change in strategy call. Charles has frequently been refused, and been reprimanded on multiple occasions for not accepting refusal. That’s the difference.
bernasaurus (@bernasaurus)
14th May 2025, 10:18
Drivers do come across as ‘whiny’ kids most of (all the time). ‘he pushed me off’
If Ferrari had allowed to FOM to use their radios during Schumachers era, I wonder what we would hear? I can’t imagine Ross Brawn and Michael saying much, probably not bickering or pointing accusations at each other. But then they were winning and not lining up on inters with the whole field on slicks behind them.
The earliest memory I have of ‘radio negotiation’ is Damon wanting a 1-2 finish over Ralf at Spa. I’m sure it happened before then, of course.
I think we all want to see two competitive drivers in the same cars. But there are a lot of benefits to having a clear no.2. Who’s quick enough, but not quite quick enough.
Nm
14th May 2025, 12:22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFVRoH9nUtI
Esmiz (@esmiz)
14th May 2025, 14:43
Not a “normal” team radio because you only hear one of the two parts, but one of the first ones I remember was this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yHPQSOziDw
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
14th May 2025, 16:30
Ah, yes, a very needless team order given the championship situation; also remember the one about fisichella above, and thinking about it, the engineer there said what red bull should’ve told to verstappen’s team mates, how often were perez, gasly, albon 1-2 seconds per lap slower and ended up being lapped by verstappen when they were team mates? Way too often, but I don’t remember red bull saying that via team radio.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
14th May 2025, 11:49
Leclerc has repeatedly tried calling the shots and been overruled. Given how badly he got reprimanded when he continued to push past that overruling in 2019, it’s hardly surprising that he takes “no” as “no” from his wall. This despite Leclerc’s record in reading changes in the race being better than the Ferrari pitwall’s record. Several examples exist just in the quotes on this article, and this is not a complete list.
At some point, the theory has to be floated that Ferrari plain doesn’t want Leclerc to call the shots – even when it would be to its advantage to do so, and even when it has allowed other drivers (notably Sainz) to do so. Some of Sainz’s calls have been wrong (Abu Dhabi 2023 is the one that comes to mind quickest), but his right to receive his choice of strategy was never revoked the way Leclerc’s has been so often.
Ferrari should consider itself lucky that learned helplessness hasn’t set in (Leclerc was advocating for his own strategy as recently as Miami 2025, despite this being clearly unwelcome and despite Leclerc being right). If Ferrari allows Leclerc to try his own strategies, it will likely be well rewarded.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
14th May 2025, 16:37
It’s strange, as in the end when hamilton came, they chose to replace sainz instead of leclerc, so I don’t get why they don’t give him the same options strategy wise.
Jem (@j1jem)
14th May 2025, 12:35
Seeing Ferrari get caught out by a completely predictable turn of events (Hamilton on better tyres catching Leclerc after fortuitous VSC timing) and then waiting until the driver asks about it before actually mulling it over and then failing to inform the drivers at the same time, does make me wonder whether they have anyone who is watching the whole race from a team perspective? I’m sure they’ve got strategists looking at each driver, but is there anyone actually considering things “holistically” who has the authority to say “this is how we are going to handle this scenario”. It just feels like they’re still winging it on these calls and coming to a decision by committee.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
14th May 2025, 16:42
Yes, looks like they don’t have anyone who evaluates stuff like that.
pcxmac (@pcxmac)
15th May 2025, 6:07
Charles does what the team wants, because he thinks he owes them his ride. I mean if you really listen to the dude, it sounds like they have him under their thumb, and they like that so they keep him around because he is pretty decent, and occasionally, if the car is okay, he turns in a good result. Which Ferrari only seem to care about. Looking good occasionally.
Last year when Ferrari were half a second faster at Monaco, I am pretty sure that was F1 BOP. Not anything to do with the design of the car. They were clearly faster the whole week, and by a very large margin.
For Lewis, the guy wants to win to the point where he will turn himself in to a donkey, because he believes in the team effort, because he gets a lot out of being part of a team, psychologically. He is also less likely to let things slide like Charles, so …
Asking Charles to take the lead, is more about demographic appeal / marketing than it is about reality or which person’s psychology is better suited to leading, because it’s clearly the guy who is able to throw jokes at his pit wall when they throw him obviously bad directions.
In reality Ferrari have two options : they can support Charles exclusively so HAM looks washed up (like Mercedes did for pretty much 3 years), or they can be more like a team that truly wants to win, and guys like HAM’s pit engineer, might be too old, and too willing to be like Bono, and do what they are told instead of trying to get their driver the best position possible. Which is clearly going on.
The car isn’t terrible, it just doesn’t have the tires or the power unit to take 1st place. Just like Max. Just like it has been for the last 11 years. Despite what the commentators try to say, its never changed, the same teams have always had the same advantages, it was just who Pirelli wanted to win (shareholders) and who the FIA have been willing to let rules get rigged for. And possibly metering systems to give teams like RBR a potential straight line speed advantage.
The Honda Power Unit might be about as good as Ferrari’s power, and their unit is still less than Mercedes, and the Renault power unit is still horrible, and only really able to compete in the wet or during qualifying when they want to risk it blowing up.
pcxmac (@pcxmac)
15th May 2025, 6:12
And Aston Martin. Lolz. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are getting second rate power units from Mercedes for ditching them in favor of Honda. I would have to check the date on when Stroll and co opted for Honda, and they started going to the back of the grid, but I would hasten to say those two dates are probably pretty close to eachother.